No, I never abuse my toys but if they claim higher than normal

> > construction standards I figure there must be at least something
> > there..

That is the sort of thing you need to see with your own eyes and

>check with your own hands to verify. You need to hold the thing
>and asses if it is really more solid.

Well, I was looking mainly for a Windows 11 computer at a good price
at the time and I wasn't that concerened about how tough it was.
I figured that was just a bonus, if true.

That said, it is thicker and heavier than typical with hard rubber
edges and it's screwed together, rather than snapped together, so it
looks a little more robust than anything else I've seen other than
the true military laptops you see in use by military and police swat
teams on TV shows.

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Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Dr. What to Arelor on Wed Nov 12 2025 07:02 am

I don't think the idea caught on. It is probably better
to buy a 50 bucks replaceable phone and just... replace it... when
it suffers an accident in the construction yard.

I used to know people who worked on the railroad. One day I asked
about their lanterns and he said that everyone uses Maglites
now. That seemed weird because the lanterns had a handle that
didn't need a hand to hold (i.e. on the wrist, etc.).

He explained that because Maglite had a policy of "you break it, we
replace it for free" it became the light of choice on the railroad
- even if it did take a hand to use it.

they only replace it for free if there's a defect. i've had many maglites.
i need brighter light to see things with how my vision is.

craftsman tools used to have a policy where you can get a replacement no matter what, but that excluded powertools, lights, etc.
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Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Rob Mccart to ARELOR on Wed Nov 12 2025 08:04 am

> and asses if it is really more solid.

Well, I was looking mainly for a Windows 11 computer at a good price
at the time and I wasn't that concerened about how tough it was. I
figured that was just a bonus, if true.

i probably said this before but i'm looking to get a mini computer
with decent specs.

https://i.imgur.com/AmAfF4P.png
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MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-

they only replace it for free if there's a defect. i've had many maglites. i need brighter light to see things with how my vision is.

You mean that they don't replace it when the train runs over it, cutting it in half? :)

But that was decades ago. I'm sure that they changed their replacement policy by now. If only because of the railroads.


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Gamgee wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

What exactly is an "off-lease" laptop, and where would you find one?

Companies used to buy laptops every couple of years. For tax purposes,
they were capital expenses that would need to be depreciated against the
cost of the laptop over 3-5 years. That meant, every 3-5 years you had
to plan for an expense to replace them.

Instead, a lot of companies lease their laptops. It changes the cost
from a big hit every 3 years to a monthly cost, which makes it easier to allocate per employee. I can tell departments that each employee will
cost you X$$/month for a laptop and a Microsoft Office 365 license
instead of having them budget $2000 or so every couple of years.

The other nice thing is that after 3 years, you can either buy the
laptop for fair market value, or $1, depending on how you structured the
lease. Or, you can return it. What we do is structure a FMV lease which
costs less, then roll the laptop lease into a new lease after 3 years.
Employee gets a new laptop, costs stay the same, and there's no big
expense every couple of years.

What happens to those laptops that get returned? They get refurbished
and sold to resellers. Most 3-4 year old Lenovo Thinkpads, Dell Latitude laptops and Optiplex laptops you see for sale were business leases that
were returned and sold off.





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Rob Mccart wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

As I said, lower end as far as power goes and such (Celeron) and
it came with just a 64 Gig SSD, but I added 1/4 Terrabyte to that
for $26, and the computer is Military grade so you can drop it or
dump water on it without hurting it, so it seemed a good buy.

I always wondered what people would think if you walked into a coffee
shop and sat down with a Panasonic Toughbook with an external antenna...



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As I said, lower end as far as power goes and such (Celeron) and
it came with just a 64 Gig SSD, but I added 1/4 Terrabyte to that
for $26, and the computer is Military grade so you can drop it or
dump water on it without hurting it, so it seemed a good buy.

I always wondered what people would think if you walked into a coffee
shop and sat down with a Panasonic Toughbook with an external antenna...

I have an older Thinkpad that requires a wireless dongle in order to
connect. Not an external antenna, but something large enough -- with
flashing little lights in its semi translucent case -- that might make some people wonder. ;)


* SLMR 2.1a * Socrates: "I drank WHAT?!"
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Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Dumas Walker to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Tue Nov 25 2025 11:12 am

flashing little lights in its semi translucent case -- that might make some people wonder. ;)

I still want to do the coffee shop thing with an SX-64. I don't have a Kaypro or Osborne, unfortunately.

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Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

I have an older Thinkpad that requires a wireless dongle in order to connect. Not an external antenna, but something large enough -- with flashing little lights in its semi translucent case -- that might make some people wonder. ;)

yeah, a sticker-bombed 4:3 thinkpad with an external wireless adapter
running Linux got some interesting looks 10 years ago in a all-Mac
coffee shop in a posh downtown area.



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I always wondered what people would think if you walked into a coffee

>shop and sat down with a Panasonic Toughbook with an external antenna...

I didn't even know they had those for Laptops. Is that just a range
extender for WiFi or something else?

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Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Rob Mccart to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Wed Nov 26 2025 08:05 am

I didn't even know they had those for Laptops. Is that just a range
extender for WiFi or something else?

that's how it was because they were shitty laptops.
dont believe half the stuff that guy says, btw.
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Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Rob Mccart to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Wed Nov 26 2025 08:05 am

I didn't even know they had those for Laptops. Is that just a range extender for WiFi or something else?

Early WiFi dongles and cards had an antena. I still have a couple of those in my computer graveyard.


... The other line always moves faster... until you get in it.

Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Denn to Rob Mccart on Thu Nov 27 2025 07:55 am

Early WiFi dongles and cards had an antena. I still have a couple of those in my computer graveyard.

How early? I built a computer for someone in 2017 and added a PCI Express wifi card, and it had an antenna. Also I built a new computer for myself in 2019 and the motherboard has wifi built-in, and it has a couple of antennas.

Nightfox

---
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Rob Mccart wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

I didn't even know they had those for Laptops. Is that just a range extender for WiFi or something else?

No, it's a USB wifi adapter. It's got a USB cable that runs to a desktop antenna base with the adapter inside the base.



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Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Nightfox to Denn on Thu Nov 27 2025 09:28 am

Early WiFi dongles and cards had an antena. I still have a couple of
those in my computer graveyard.

How early? I built a computer for someone in 2017 and added a PCI Express wifi card, and it had an antenna. Also I built a new computer for myself in 2019 and the motherboard has wifi built-in, and it has a couple of antennas.

Didn't realize they were still making WiFi Cards and dongles with antena'e
most newer computers lik my new laptop have great wifi with no ext antena's.

... Strip mining prevents forest fires.

Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Nightfox to Denn on Thu Nov 27 2025 09:28 am

Early WiFi dongles and cards had an antena. I still have a couple of
those in my computer graveyard.

How early? I built a computer for someone in 2017 and added a PCI Express wifi card, and it had an antenna. Also I built a new computer for myself in 2019 and the motherboard has wifi built-in, and it has a couple of antennas.

My actual Main Machine, and old Intel I7one, still working pretty well have also a motherboard Wifi built-in, with a nice space like magnetic antenna. :0))

Regards,
.: Lord Woodoo :.
Somewhere In Time..
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Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Nightfox to Denn on Thu Nov 27 2025 09:28 am

How early? I built a computer for someone in 2017 and added a PCI Express wifi card, and it had an antenna. Also I built a new computer for myself in 2019 and the motherboard has wifi built-in, and it has a couple of antennas.

I remember inheriting some old Orinoco gear in 2004 or so -- a 802.11b AP with no ethernet ports, a handful of Orinoco "silver" cards, which only did 56 bit WEP, or maybe WPA...

One of the cool things I got was a PCI card with a PCMCIA slot - the slot stuck out the back of the card, so the antenna of a wireless card stuck outside of the case.

I remember being excited about 11 mbps. How far we've come...

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Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Denn to Nightfox on Thu Nov 27 2025 02:51 pm

Didn't realize they were still making WiFi Cards and dongles with antena'e most newer computers lik my new laptop have great wifi with no ext antena's.

I bought a pre-built HP desktop PC in early 2009 that had wifi with an internal antenna (it was basically a wire with an exposed end that was wrapped around internally). I think that was the only PC I had with a wifi antenna like that.

Nightfox

---
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I didn't even know they had those for Laptops. Is that just a range extender for WiFi or something else?

Early WiFi dongles and cards had an antena. I still have a couple of

>those in my computer graveyard.

I actually have a card with an antenna for a Desktop system, but it's
a little easier to set that up since the card ends are right at the
back of the case. Not quite the same with a Laptop..

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On 12 Nov 2025, Rob Mccart said the following...

looks a little more robust than anything else I've seen other than
the true military laptops you see in use by military and police swat
teams on TV shows.

yeah, our local ambulance company uses these kinds of laptops when they are taking patients to the hopital for information gathering. Pretty nice looking machines.

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looks a little more robust than anything else I've seen other than
the true military laptops you see in use by military and police swat
teams on TV shows.

yeah, our local ambulance company uses these kinds of laptops when

>they are taking patients to the hopital for information gathering.
>Pretty nice looking machines.

Yes, mine isn't nearly as fancy but I figure anything to make it a
little more sturdy than average is a good thing. It doesn't look
too bad but it obviously wasn't designed to be slim and beautiful.

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Yes, mine isn't nearly as fancy but I figure anything to make it a
little more sturdy than average is a good thing. It doesn't look
too bad but it obviously wasn't designed to be slim and beautiful.

As long as it works.
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Nightfox wrote to All <=-

I've thought about buying a new laptop, as the laptop I currently have
is one I bought in 2014.. I've thought about buying a Framework laptop
- I like their open-source design and that you can repair/upgrade them easily, but they're quite expensive. I might end up buying a more mainstream laptop..

https://frame.work/products/laptop16-diy-amd-ai300/configuration/new

I've been using a Framework 16 for about a year now, and love it. Mine
is a Ryzen-9, 32GB, without the add-on Nvidia graphics module. Not
cheap, but as you said very ugradeable/customizable, and easy to work on
if needed. I added the numeric keypad option as well. Haven't had any trouble with it and it's Linux-friendly. I'd give it a "highly recommended" rating.



... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
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phigan wrote to Nightfox <=-

Re: Framework laptop
By: Nightfox to All on Tue Sep 09 2025 04:08 pm

bought in 2014.. I've thought about
buying a Framework laptop - I like
their open-source design and that yo

Make sure to read some reviews on the
latest models. For awhile they had
some issues with the displays. They
would easily wobble while you were
typing and a lot of them would have the
picture cut out, the backlight cut out,
or just have weird lines on the screen.
It happened to a couple that I talk to
online.

I've been using a Framework 16 for about a year and have had zero
problems. Very happy with it.




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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Nightfox <=-

I've thought about buying a new laptop, as the laptop I currently have
is one I bought in 2014.. I've thought about buying a Framework laptop
- I like their open-source design and that you can repair/upgrade them easily, but they're quite expensive. I might end up buying a more mainstream laptop..

There's a lot to be said for an off-lease Thinkpad or Dell XPS
laptop...

What exactly is an "off-lease" laptop, and where would you find one?




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Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Gamgee to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Oct 27 2025 02:33 pm

There's a lot to be said for an off-lease Thinkpad or Dell XPS laptop...

What exactly is an "off-lease" laptop, and where would you find one?

I believe an off-lease laptop is (or is similar to) a laptop that was used, for instance, by a company in an office for one of their employees and they've decided to replace that laptop after a period of time. I think sometimes you can find them on eBay, or maybe the company might decide to sell them somewhere else.

The PC I'm currently running my BBS on is a small Dell workstation that I bought on eBay, and from what I remember, the auction said it was such a PC that a company was using that they decided they didn't need anymore and decided to sell it on eBay; they were selling a bunch of such PCs on eBay. It didn't have any storage in it, so I had to provide my own storage device - Perhaps the computer's IT company took the storage out of it so they could make sure they securely erase it or something.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Gamgee to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Oct 27 2025 02:33 pm

What exactly is an "off-lease" laptop, and where would you find one?

Aside from eBay, it looks like Dell also sells them directly - This is a page on Dell's web site titled "Shop Refurbished Laptops And Off-Lease Laptops":

https://www.dellrefurbished.com/laptops

Nightfox

---
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Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Gamgee to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Oct 27 2025 02:33 pm

There's a lot to be said for an off-lease Thinkpad or Dell XPS laptop...

What exactly is an "off-lease" laptop, and where would you find one?

I believe an off-lease laptop is (or is similar to) a laptop that was used, for instance, by a company in an office for one of their
employees and they've decided to replace that laptop after a period of time. I think sometimes you can find them on eBay, or maybe the company might decide to sell them somewhere else.

Okay, cool, thanks for the explanation.



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Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: Framework laptop
By: Gamgee to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Oct 27 2025 02:33 pm

What exactly is an "off-lease" laptop, and where would you find one?

Aside from eBay, it looks like Dell also sells them directly - This is
a page on Dell's web site titled "Shop Refurbished Laptops And
Off-Lease Laptops":

https://www.dellrefurbished.com/laptops

Interesting... thanks again for the info!



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